查看: 6447|回复: 15

[技术] 水燃料视频???

发表于 2009-5-15 04:46:51 | 显示全部楼层 |阅读模式

 楼主| 发表于 2009-5-15 04:50:10 | 显示全部楼层

It's Brown's Gas all over again. Take some science, electrolysis, and dress it up in pseudo-science, magnecules, and call it a discovery. I can believe a local news crew is gullible enough to fall for this, but if the military is indeed sniffing around this crackpot's ideas I'll feast on the litter box tonight.The torch is nothing new. Take a mixture of two parts hydrogen and one part oxygen and you get a really hot flame. Vary that mixture, say increase the oxygen percentage until there is barely enough hydrogen to keep the torch lit and you will have a cool flame that burns nearly anything. A high concentration of oxygen causes most materials to combust vigorously if there is any ignition source (see Apollo 1). Unfortunately this gas mixture is scary dangerous because all it needs is a teeny spark and the whole cylinder will explode. That's what you get for mixing fuel and oxidizer.As to the vehicle: you can use a gasoline engine to create electricity to split water which gets recombined to run the motor, but thermodynamics says it's more efficient to just use the gas to run the motor.

"A Humvee that runs on both water and gasoline".hmmm ... did that news reporter really think it was either one or the other?How about runs on gasoline and water (water vapor, steam injection or maybe even HHO)... the inference sure is on the former, reality the latter.It sure is fun to watch a snake oil salesman work the crowd though, isn't it? Reminds me of the Zero Point Energy post a while back.... rising water prices, I wish, not something us Washingtonians lose a lot of sleep over with annual precipitation ranging from 60 to 100+ inches here.

A while back I was interested in generating hydrogen (H2) from a small windmill for a retirement cabin. I planned on using it as a methane/propane replacement for cooking gas. I had seen oxygen electrolyzers in the Navy (the H2 was dumped overboard) so I knew it was simple.

My search led me to a site where one of the forums was about HHO cells (Browns Gas). This is where the H2 and O2 that came out of the water were allowed to mix instead of being kept separate. The major interest was in displacing perhaps half your fuel with HHO generated by an extra alternator powering a cell.

Gasoline has 8 carbons in its molecule (Octane) and is surrounded by as many hydrogens as they can hold onto (18). Propane has 3 carbons and 8 Hydrogens, and methane has one carbon and 4 hydrogens. Its the hydrogen that burns, leaving the carbon in the exhaust. Burning pure H2 releases no carbon.

I point these things out to show the relative energy densities of the various fuels. When switching from gasoline to propane, the fuel is less dense so you need more fuel. More propane than gasoline means less room in the cylinder for the total air/fuel mix, which leads to less power in the same size engine.

Going from propane to methane drops power even more. Going from methane to H2 causes the same. My point is that the "gorilla cell" is very simple and I'm certain it works, but...

You're paying $2500 for something you could easily build yourself for under $1,000, and if you replace 3/4ths of your gasoline with HHO, it will cut the power in half (plus takes up your entire trunk with a large heavy cell filled with water).

If you could hack the fuel injection computer so that when you wanted to accellerate you would get full gasoline power, but during cruise you got the 3/4ths HHO for 1/2 power, that would work much better.

For $2500 I would rather build a Lithium E-Motorcycle
 楼主| 发表于 2009-5-15 04:51:42 | 显示全部楼层
A few years ago I wanted to design a multi-fuel system for my car:

Not sure if it could actually work, but I thought it was a good idea.
 楼主| 发表于 2009-5-15 05:08:25 | 显示全部楼层
Why thank you Mr. Fox.

BTW, I spent some time on "the project" today. I call it "The Pasta Jar of Death":

Next step: Put the hydrogen in your fuel cell and power our toys for those long trips.

If my memory serves me correctly, Myth Busters used an old pre-EFI carburated car.

I tried to run the lawn mower on brown's gas once. It had a serious problem with pre-ignition and flashbacks. There are some youtube videos of people running motors on it with better results then me, but hot spots on the car's cylinder would be something I'd be mindful of.

I went to Poland last new years with my girlfriend. All the gas stations were pumping unleaded as well as AutoGas (propane). The propane was half the price. The kits are going on ebay for around $2000 shipping, and propane tank that goes in the spare tire well included. Some kits let you use Natural Gas as well, so you can fill up at home. For the guy with the crown vic, if you want to get the biggest bang for your buck, proven technology, I'd recommend that.
 楼主| 发表于 2009-5-15 05:09:53 | 显示全部楼层
I just got back from HomeDepot with a small handful of parts.  I figured I'd try this as well.
This is my first design idea:

Quarter inch all-thread, fender washers, bolted so that each washer on one side overlaps washers on the other (I don't know why). Secured onto a PVC cap, then inserted into the PVC pipe (estimating 4" dia.pipe) and filled with distilled water. I'm wanting to design this to be under no pressure, or a free-flow design.
This is the HHO system; another two-pipe design will be for separate H2 an O areas.
- why do you use a glass container?
- square wave? At what frequency? I've a computer programme that can output sine/square/ramp/sawtooth at 0-20kHz... why would I use it and what's special about square wave?
 楼主| 发表于 2009-5-15 05:10:11 | 显示全部楼层
why do you use a glass container?
I don't use glass - it's acrylic. I want something I can see the bubbles.
- square wave? At what frequency? I've a computer programme that can output sine/square/ramp/sawtooth at 0-20kHz... why would I use it and what's special about square wave?
There are two basic approaches to electrolysis. The first is the well understood form of "high power" electrolysis. This is what things like the Smack Booster uses. They pump anywhere from 120W to 480W (12V 10A to 12V 40A) through water with an electrolyte (often KOH). This power comes from the vehicle alternator and allows for better combustion of the fuel. Claims range from 10% to 50% fuel efficiency gains. This is what zerogas is doing with his crown vic.
The other approach is "low power electrolysis" (it's not actually clear if it really is electrolysis or "something else"). With this setup folks have managed to put in as little as 0.5A at 12V (6W) and get significant production of Hydroxy Gas. Do a google on "Stanley Meyers Water Fuel Cell". A key component of this approach seems to be the conditioning of the cathode with a highly resistive oxide which limits current flow and the pulsing of the electric current. There's a low (100Hz?) frequency square wave which gates a high (40kHz) frequency wave. Some have hypothesized that the resonant frequency of the electrodes might be important. There are two apparently successful approaches to this. Stan Meyers used concentric tubes with the cathode as the inner tube (this is the design we're following) - search for Ravi Water Fuel Cell to see a you tube of one in action. Bob Boyce uses a set of square electrodes (and an even weirder set of three frequency generators).
The freaky thing with the "low power" approach is that you can get "over unity" - i.e. you can get more power out (in terms of combustible hydroxy gas) than power in (in the form of electricity). Apparently Stan Meyers got 17 times the theoretical Faraday maximum where as Ravi has managed around 5 to 8 times (even 1.00000000001 "breaks" the laws of physics - obviously it doesn't really break anything if it works at all it's because of some misunderstanding in our current thinking).
For the best description google this stuff.
I'm not sure your design is very effective - is one column the cathode and one the anode? If so, only the overlapping part would be effective. If not and the anode and cathode alternate up each column then conversely you wouldn't want any overlap. But perhaps I'm missing something? (aside from a few marbles)
 楼主| 发表于 2009-5-15 05:13:24 | 显示全部楼层
Hydrogen leak versus gas leak:

Gen pics:

This one is on sale for $1725:

"Makes 200 litres oxy-hydrogen per hour"
 楼主| 发表于 2009-5-15 05:17:12 | 显示全部楼层

My stuff so far:

BTW, if anyone is interested in knowing how I make threaded holesfor the "1/4OD(1/8CTS)X1/8MIP Quick Connect Elbow", let me know - noone at Home Depot had any idea; I had to figure out a fancy way to doit without their help (like usual).
 楼主| 发表于 2009-5-15 05:18:07 | 显示全部楼层
Come on, pretty is what gets things done. Well, pretty is what She uses to get me to do things. ;)
Like I said, I'm going to have to brute force this thing until someone posts up plans and/or schematics for whatever you're doing.

This is the one and only casing design. The internal elements will be designed for ease of removal and replacement from the bottom.
> 3" PVC, 18"h
> 1.5" PVC, 16"h
> Screw-on caps on the bottom
> Rubber caps (with clamps removed) on the top for safety; over-pressure release and water fill
> One long clear tubing on the 3" for water level observance
> Same type tubing connects from upper of 3" to lower of 1.5" bubbler
> Same type tubing will connect from upper bubbler and routed to air intake of vehicle.
I've already a new element design in the works, but am waiting to test the first one, so I have something to compare with.
 楼主| 发表于 2009-5-15 05:29:36 | 显示全部楼层
At 12v I had just distilled water in it and wasn't getting any bubbles. Then I switched to 24 volts and still wasn't getting anything. So I poured a little ACV in and started seeing a reaction (bubbles!) so I poured a bit more in and waited for it to blend with the water. About 15 minutes later I come back and see all these bubbles, so I grab the cam to record for you guys.
I think it's the ACV that's doing it.
I found specs on the power supply I'm using (RoHS Compliant!):
Shows 2.5amps. So, 24v/2.5a  I see they now have a 6amp version... just may have to get that one; these are real good boards with neat little features and no problems for the past 9 years I've had them.
您需要登录后才可以回帖 登录 | 注册


手机版|辽公网安备 21100402204006号|科技论坛 ( 辽ICP备07501385号-1    

GMT+8, 2017-10-24 01:16

Powered by X3.3 Licensed

© 2001-2017 Comsenz Inc.

快速回复 返回顶部 返回列表